[21:20] Elizabeth: hi
[21:20] Ceridwen: testing.
[21:21] Ceridwen: I think we started with the 4 stars two stars divide.
[21:25] Ceridwen: Something big with prawns happened that year- something about a big trial about obsenity?
[21:25] Elizabeth: it still has all of that american dream stuff from the beats going for it.
[21:26] Elizabeth: yes
[21:26] Elizabeth: was it the hustler trial?
[21:26] Elizabeth: no, that was the seventies.
[21:26] Elizabeth: you know, the internet is right here. we could look it up.
[21:26] Ceridwen: anyway, one of the undercurrents of the book is about how all of these marginalized culktures use the WASTE postal system as a bIG FUCK YOU CLOWN to the Man.
[21:26] Ceridwen: or wahetever.
[21:27] Elizabeth: W.A.S.T.E. not WASTE
[21:27] Ceridwen: Hello teh Internets? Yoo hoo?
[21:27] Elizabeth: your cover is totally blown you government stooge.
[21:27] Ceridwen: I hear they answers.
[21:27] Elizabeth: fuck off
[21:27] Ceridwen: lol W.A.S.T.E.
[21:27] Ceridwen: no you
[21:27] Elizabeth: go forth, search for answers ye of the great internets tool.
[21:27] Ceridwen: fuck off that is.
[21:32] Ceridwen: Yesh, it was a sight gag!
[21:32] Elizabeth: It is.
[21:32] Ceridwen: my preshoius.
[21:32] Elizabeth: Was he envisioning it as a film?
[21:32] Ceridwen: There's definitely a filmic aspect.
[21:33] Ceridwen: I feel like her writes physicality better than a lot of people, when he's trying.
[21:33] Ceridwen: Although that dream sequence had me off a bit.
[21:33] Ceridwen: AND THE ENDING OMFG
[21:33] Elizabeth: I'm still going with the idea that he was sitting around at a SoCal party, watching people fuck and get high and weep over the loss of some stupid director that everyone was now calling a genius and he thought, I bet if I write something that they don't understand but think is praise, I will totally get laid next time.
[21:33] Ceridwen: I bet he did get laid too.
[21:34] Elizabeth: The ending was a disappointment. There should definitely have been some ninjias or pirates or something to save the stamp collection.
[21:34] Ceridwen: There's something very literary wankerism about the ending, because he TOTALLY denies you all the usual clousre.
[21:34] Ceridwen: I THOUGHT THERE WERE GOING TO BE NINJAS TOO.
[21:34] Elizabeth: Do they really ever write books other than to impress women or men or puppies, whatever they're into, right?
[21:35] Ceridwen: It's like, he's counting on you imagining the ninjas, and then ends right before them, so you have to imagine your own ninjas.
[21:35] Elizabeth: Actually, with this one, there should have been cowboys or guys with swords from the jacobean tragedy.
[21:35] Ceridwen: RIGHT.
[21:35] Ceridwen: iN NINJA COSTUMES
[21:35] Elizabeth: Yes! My own ninjas. Lame-o. He should have given me ninjas.
[21:36] Ceridwen: Although, really I'm more Team Pirates in the whole ninjas v. pirates thing.
[21:36] Elizabeth: I think he was going for a Chekhov thing by ending there.
[21:36] Elizabeth: tough call: ninjas or pirates. I hear the pirates rip bodices though.
[21:36] Ceridwen: CHECHOV? FOR SERIOUS. DOTH EXPLAIN.
[21:36] Ceridwen: Pirates drink a lot more.
[21:36] Ceridwen: Hene, team pirates.
[21:40] Ceridwen: Okay, how bout this: California is totally imaginary to me.
[21:40] Ceridwen: It doesn't exist.
[21:41] Ceridwen: I've heard tell of this place, but I've never been there, and it's so weird to learn about a place like California from fiction, because there's probably more fiction about California than there is California about CAlifornia, and I think there's something about that in Lot 49.
[21:41] Elizabeth: Was he really just freaking out about the rise of corporations and the destruction of all his artist friends (total HOWL moment there) and his own on-set of serious the government is out to get me paranoia, or was it a loss of innocence thing in another way? Had the American Dream just dropped on him and he didn't know where to go from there?
[21:41] Elizabeth: I don't know how people who haven't lived there appreciate this book.
[21:42] Elizabeth: It's got to be just as imaginary to them as Cannery Row.
[21:42] Ceridwen: These Californians hang out and talk their state into being. Not just the here and now, but the whole history.
[21:42] Elizabeth: The best parts of the book is how accurately he skewers California.
[21:42] Ceridwen: Yup, Cannery Row is a perfect example for me: total movie set too.
[21:42] Elizabeth: They're like children about it though. They don't see the irony.
[21:43] Ceridwen: Right, but it's an ironic vision about un-ironic people.
[21:43] Elizabeth: Like the Irvine people with their scented poop bags and their gated disneyland communities, how do they not see it as totally ridiculous?
[21:43] Ceridwen: Loss of innocence? Hmmm. *processing*
[21:43] Elizabeth: But he wrote it for them.
[21:44] Ceridwen: Does California have an innocence to lose?
[21:44] Elizabeth: If it had been written in 68 after Kennedy and King, I would totally say it's loss of innocence, but it was written earlier.
[21:44] Ceridwen: He did write it for them
[21:44] Elizabeth: The rise of the aerospace industry there was huge.
[21:45] Ceridwen: There's a great moment when Oed talks about Southern California needing the sea to wash away it's sins, but Northern California has no sins to wash away.
[21:45] Elizabeth: I can see how it would totally freak someone out. If Lockheed Martin moved into your neighborhood, wouldn't you freak?
[21:45] Elizabeth: NoCal didn't have sins?
[21:45] Ceridwen: OMFG AERSPACE INDUSTRY. BUCKAROO BONSAI TOTALLY USED YOYODYNE IN THAT FEAKING AWESOME MOVIE.
[21:53] Ceridwen: YES TOTALLY CARY GRANT
[21:54] Ceridwen: DAMN YOU, ELIZABETH, YOU'RE MAKING ME TAKE IT DOWN TO THREE STARS.
[21:54] Elizabeth: Yes!
[21:54] Ceridwen: You win this time.
[21:54] Elizabeth: now I feel bad.
[21:54] Ceridwen: *gigling*
[21:54] Elizabeth: bitch.
[21:55] Elizabeth: it's giggling.
[21:55] Ceridwen: The sock puppet is now drinking my g&T
[21:55] Elizabeth: go fight for your G&T!
[21:55] Ceridwen: WHERE THE HELL IS EH!
[21:55] Ceridwen: ?
[21:56] Elizabeth: she'll show up to laugh at us as soon as this thing is posted.